Depart Out • Harold Camping • End of the world • church age • Family Radio • View topic

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

From the Book 1994? by Harold Camping.....

Chapter 4, "God Begins to Judge the Church"

Page 152, "Hell and Damnation"

"One frightening thing is that there is so little conversation about hell and damnation, which is what we are saved from. All kinds of salvation messages are being presented..............."

"How can anyone become saved if he does not know what he is being saved from? How can he know what he is saved from unless it is thoroughly discussed and diligently taught that because of sins he is under the wrath of God. He is subject to eternal damnation............"

Page 153

"One can rightly fear eternal damnation only if the Bible's disclosures of the awful nature of hell are taught from the pulpit. God did not place multitudinous Biblical references to the awfulness and certainty of His wrath just to fill up space. If these passages are neglected, it is not the whole counsel of God. It will be man's and not the true Gospel."

"God Removes the Truth from the Church"

"The sad and terrible truth is that the congregations and denominations are heading for disaster"

Chapter 7, "What is the True Gospel"

Page 250

"When we search the Scriptures, we find that the word "perish", as it is used in John 3:16, does not mean "annihilation". In our English language when we say, "I will perish", we think of dying, of ceasing to exist. In the Bible the word "perish" has another definition. The Bible tells us that the wages of sin death (Romans 6:23). The living death that God has in view is to exist throughout eternity in hell. that is the predicament of rebellious mankind. That is what it means to perish."

Page 252

"God's perfect justice demands eternal damnation as payment for sins". Unfortunately we do not hear this part of the Gospel preached too frequently. It is so reprehensible, so sorry, so serious. It is so terrible that we want to forget about it"

Page 253

"The pathetic fact, however, is that to a high degree, the church of today is no longer aware of this message."

"Too many preachers no longer talk about hell". In fact, I once heard a theologian from a reputable seminary ......... ridiculing hell. He had better read Revelation 14 again, where it says "the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever (verse 11). he had better read Matthew 13, Mark 9, and Matthew 25 again where Jesus says says things like "there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:42), and "their worm dieth not" (Mark 9:44), and where he speaks of eternal damnation (Matthew 25:46). The only reason that we do not often read those passages is because they are so frightening. We had better be frightened if we are not saved, because hell is real."

=============================================

There is no need for comment about Harold Camping, his own words condemn him.

Jim B.
jimbbbbb@gmail.com

Joined: 10 Oct 2010 Posts: 1197 Location: Canada

Wow! How can his followers take him seriously after such an "about face"? I assume Camping's excuse would be that since 1988 God has revealed so much more truth to him!
Listening to him lately is rather sad...he seems to have succumbed to senility.

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

Here is more ranting and ravings of Harold Camping.
He prophesied of his OWN FUTURE FALL INTO APOSTASY.

Harold Camping and Family Radio used to be a beacon of truth, and light in the world. Family Radio is part of the external church, like all who name the name of Christ in this world. So Harold is correct, Judgement begins with the house of God. God is bringing Judgement on his external church, and the most strong Judgement comes to the ones with the most truth and the most Bible knowledge in the past.

God is bringing Judgement and Wrath upon Family Radio, and will destroy it, after 2011 passes, and Harold dies. Faithful Christians need to reform it quickly, or it will be brought down, and go bankrupt.

Here is more quotes of Harold predicting the Judgement to come on Family Radio which is part of the external church. Harold is a teacher and Pastor, instructing and reaching potentially millions of people all over the world.

From the book 1994?

Chapter 4, "God Begins to Judge the Church"

Page 160, "The Task of the Pastor"

"The preaching becomes increasingly pinched off. It does not get into the heaven-hell question. It ignores the matter of eternal life versus eternal damnation. It does not mention God's judgement. It is preaching to keep the congregation happy. The pastor preaches from his own mind. These are reprehensible ideas."

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

How come no response from any Camping-ite?

They have been silenced by their own leader.

Joined: 03 Jul 2010 Posts: 1908

JimB wrote

"The preaching becomes increasingly pinched off. It does not get into the heaven-hell question. It ignores the matter of eternal life versus eternal damnation. It does not mention God's judgement. It is preaching to keep the congregation happy. The pastor preaches from his own mind. These are reprehensible ideas."

Harold still preaches heaven-hell / eternal life vs. eternal damnation and God's judgment - its only that he has redefined those concepts - you will say from his own mind but he would say from the Spirit so according to his own definitions and logic he remains a faithful pastor even according to his 1994? definition.

Joined: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 3314

Exactly. Annihilation is a sharpening of our understanding of God's judgment. HC has always preached Eternal Damnation and Eternal Life. He still does except now Eternal Damnation is eternal death, not torment. Of course this is only possible because we've learned about the five months of torment, which addresses all those verses that speak of Torment. So we see that God is correcting us all, neatly tying all the loose ends together as we head to Judgment Day. what a loving and merciful God we have. Imagine if we still believed in Eternal Torment? We'd be more depressed and more sorrowful.

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

TrueBeliever wrote

Exactly. Annihilation is a sharpening of our understanding of God's judgment. HC has always preached Eternal Damnation and Eternal Life. He still does except now Eternal Damnation is eternal death, not torment. Of course this is only possible because we've learned about the five months of torment, which addresses all those verses that speak of Torment. So we see that God is correcting us all, neatly tying all the loose ends together as we head to Judgment Day. what a loving and merciful God we have. Imagine if we still believed in Eternal Torment? We'd be more depressed and more sorrowful.

1994?
Chapter 7, "What is the True Gospel"
Page 250

"When we search the Scriptures, we find that the word "perish", as it is used in John 3:16, does not mean "annihilation". In our English language when we say, "I will perish", we think of dying, of ceasing to exist. In the Bible the word "perish" has another definition. The Bible tells us that the wages of sin death (Romans 6:23). The living death that God has in view is to exist throughout eternity in hell. that is the predicament of rebellious mankind. That is what it means to perish."

Page 253

"The pathetic fact, however, is that to a high degree, the church of today is no longer aware of this message."

"Too many preachers no longer talk about hell". In fact, I once heard a theologian from a reputable seminary ......... ridiculing hell. He had better read Revelation 14 again, where it says "the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever (verse 11). he had better read Matthew 13, Mark 9, and Matthew 25 again where Jesus says says things like "there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:42), and "their worm dieth not" (Mark 9:44), and where he speaks of eternal damnation (Matthew 25:46). The only reason that we do not often read those passages is because they are so frightening. We had better be frightened if we are not saved, because hell is real."

============================================
Daniel 7
25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws.

Revelation 2
7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches
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Joined: 05 Nov 2009 Posts: 1604

TrueBeliever wrote

Exactly. Annihilation is a sharpening of our understanding of God's judgment.

Ok, I see. So when Harold Camping was wrong (according to you) about eternal torment pre-2007, that was no mark of apostasy. It was simply that Harold's doctrine "hadn't been sharpened yet". But of course, prior to 2007 Harold accused the churches of being apostate for believing in things like annihilation. It seems as though the rule was that when churches were wrong about eternal damnation, it was a sign of their apostasy. But when Harold was wrong about it, it was just because he needed a little sharpening. Sounds like a pretty big double standard to me. But hey, anyone can soften in their old age. If Mr. Camping has decided that some bad doctrine on the part of a well meaning believer simply means they are in need of some sharpening (as opposed to a mark of apostasy) I'm fine with that. So for all the well meaning churches out there who are wrong about free-will, divorce, women leadership, tongues, and a whole host of other issues that Mr. Camping likes to rail against, let's just say they are all sincere christians in need of some sharpening, ok? Let's stop calling some bad doctrine here or there a "mark of apostasy". Let's just agree to call it a little "need for sharpening". Does that sound like a fair deal?

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

frank wrote

TrueBeliever wrote

Exactly. Annihilation is a sharpening of our understanding of God's judgment.

Ok, I see. So when Harold Camping was wrong (according to you) about eternal torment pre-2007, that was no mark of apostasy. It was simply that Harold's doctrine "hadn't been sharpened yet". But of course, prior to 2007 Harold accused the churches of being apostate for believing in things like annihilation. It seems as though the rule was that when churches were wrong about eternal damnation, it was a sign of their apostasy. But when Harold was wrong about it, it was just because he needed a little sharpening. Sounds like a pretty big double standard to me. But hey, anyone can soften in their old age. If Mr. Camping has decided that some bad doctrine on the part of a well meaning believer simply means they are in need of some sharpening (as opposed to a mark of apostasy) I'm fine with that. So for all the well meaning churches out there who are wrong about free-will, divorce, women leadership, tongues, and a whole host of other issues that Mr. Camping likes to rail against, let's just say they are all sincere christians in need of some sharpening, ok? Let's stop calling some bad doctrine here or there a "mark of apostasy". Let's just agree to call it a little "need for sharpening". Does that sound like a fair deal?

Exactly my point Frank.

When the churches taught hell and damnation, but they were not mentioning it enough, it was a false gospel according to Harold. If someone even thought about annihilation before 2007, they were definitely not saved and had a different gospel.

Now that Harold could not believe that all of his family members that do not agree with his heresies, and 2011, and depart out, would spend eternity in Hell, Mr Camping changed the doctrine, to torment for 5 months and annihilation.

I personally heard him say in 2007....
"Now we don't have to worry about our loved ones", since he came up with the annihilation doctrine.

In other words, Mr Camping believes he has the authority to tell God how to punish people and the Devil. Mr Camping believes he is a higher authority then God and the Bible on these issues.

He first comes up with something that makes sense to his human mind and then he twists the Bible to agree with that.

Joined: 10 Feb 2008 Posts: 2060

Harold has judged God and found him wanting.

Joined: 26 Feb 2010 Posts: 39

kzaren wrote

Wow! How can his followers take him seriously after such an "about face"? I assume Camping's excuse would be that since 1988 God has revealed so much more truth to him!
Listening to him lately is rather sad...he seems to have succumbed to senility.

Yes, and if I may jump in briefly:

I was IN THE CONGREGATION, sitting with Camping, during the whole 1994 stuff. EVERY service Camping would teach "here's why " and "there's why" Jesus was coming in Sept, Oct, Dec, no I mean 1995, no, we have more information now that's pointing to xyz.

Without a lot of details, I TELL YOU PLAINLY that Camping was out to CONVINCE EVERYONE, FIRST AND FOREMOST about how Jesus was coming again AND HOW WONDERFUL IT IS THAT GOD SHOWED these Camping friends BECAUSE OF ALL THEIR HARD WORK at studying!

Here's the pattern: Camping would say 1,000 times: "here's another verse pointing to Jesus coming in xyz, and here's why", then ONCE he'd say "oh....of course I could be wrong, you should check it out for yourself....if I stand to be corrected, then correct me". Then, ANYONE that would try to correct him, he'd say "now, just a minute, you are not 'this-and-that', and he would NEVER allow correction on ANYTHING of substance.

The point being (here's the analogy): "I lie to you 1,000 times in a row, and place a '?' after '1994' as a disclaimer".

Is that person a liar, or a truth teller because he gave himself a loophole?

Camping is a liar! Not only that, in person, he is impatient, stern, cold, uncaring, only wants to "toot his horn", a crashing cymbal, an annoying dripping faucet, etc.

Camping does NOT show (by and large) the fruits of the Spirit.

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 2819

Brad N: I always enjoy your testimony.

You said at one time that everyone who knows Camping eventually rejects him. I must agree with you here.

I've found others also who have also known him personally that to mention his name just makes them bristle and want to walk away.

I believe that this is a telling fact.

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

I have known Mr Camping personally also.
As long as you agree with him, he is your friend.
When I got out of a cult that opposed him in 1987, he was my friend.
When I handed him a letter in 1993, explaining why 1994 was a false prediction, he literally walked away from me and said I was way off, and never contacted me again.

Harold Camping is under the delusion and authority and control of Satan, that old Serpent, the Devil, causing suicides, destruction, and fear in many thousands of families.

He is a proven liar, false prophet, and dangerous cult leader.

He thinks he is the only one with the truth, and if anyone goes against him, they are unsaved.

Depart out of Harold Camping and Babylon, and the entire kingdom of Satan, and flee to Jesus for salvation.

Joined: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 3314

Brad N wrote

kzaren wrote

Wow! How can his followers take him seriously after such an "about face"? I assume Camping's excuse would be that since 1988 God has revealed so much more truth to him!
Listening to him lately is rather sad...he seems to have succumbed to senility.

Yes, and if I may jump in briefly:

I was IN THE CONGREGATION, sitting with Camping, during the whole 1994 stuff. EVERY service Camping would teach "here's why " and "there's why" Jesus was coming in Sept, Oct, Dec, no I mean 1995, no, we have more information now that's pointing to xyz.

Without a lot of details, I TELL YOU PLAINLY that Camping was out to CONVINCE EVERYONE, FIRST AND FOREMOST about how Jesus was coming again AND HOW WONDERFUL IT IS THAT GOD SHOWED these Camping friends BECAUSE OF ALL THEIR HARD WORK at studying!

Here's the pattern: Camping would say 1,000 times: "here's another verse pointing to Jesus coming in xyz, and here's why", then ONCE he'd say "oh....of course I could be wrong, you should check it out for yourself....if I stand to be corrected, then correct me". Then, ANYONE that would try to correct him, he'd say "now, just a minute, you are not 'this-and-that', and he would NEVER allow correction on ANYTHING of substance.

The point being (here's the analogy): "I lie to you 1,000 times in a row, and place a '?' after '1994' as a disclaimer".

Is that person a liar, or a truth teller because he gave himself a loophole?

Camping is a liar! Not only that, in person, he is impatient, stern, cold, uncaring, only wants to "toot his horn", a crashing cymbal, an annoying dripping faucet, etc.

Camping does NOT show (by and large) the fruits of the Spirit.

Then why did you not run away at the sight of him before 1994?

According to you, Camping is the devil, but YOU believed him until his prediction proved false. Now, you say Camping is a liar, etc, etc.

Was he a liar before 1994? No, that's why you sat in his congregation for years and years. He only became a liar AFTER 1994 failed. I see.

Amazing how bitterness clouds judgment and perspective.

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

TrueBeliever wrote

Brad N wrote

kzaren wrote

Wow! How can his followers take him seriously after such an "about face"? I assume Camping's excuse would be that since 1988 God has revealed so much more truth to him!
Listening to him lately is rather sad...he seems to have succumbed to senility.

Yes, and if I may jump in briefly:

I was IN THE CONGREGATION, sitting with Camping, during the whole 1994 stuff. EVERY service Camping would teach "here's why " and "there's why" Jesus was coming in Sept, Oct, Dec, no I mean 1995, no, we have more information now that's pointing to xyz.

Without a lot of details, I TELL YOU PLAINLY that Camping was out to CONVINCE EVERYONE, FIRST AND FOREMOST about how Jesus was coming again AND HOW WONDERFUL IT IS THAT GOD SHOWED these Camping friends BECAUSE OF ALL THEIR HARD WORK at studying!

Here's the pattern: Camping would say 1,000 times: "here's another verse pointing to Jesus coming in xyz, and here's why", then ONCE he'd say "oh....of course I could be wrong, you should check it out for yourself....if I stand to be corrected, then correct me". Then, ANYONE that would try to correct him, he'd say "now, just a minute, you are not 'this-and-that', and he would NEVER allow correction on ANYTHING of substance.

The point being (here's the analogy): "I lie to you 1,000 times in a row, and place a '?' after '1994' as a disclaimer".

Is that person a liar, or a truth teller because he gave himself a loophole?

Camping is a liar! Not only that, in person, he is impatient, stern, cold, uncaring, only wants to "toot his horn", a crashing cymbal, an annoying dripping faucet, etc.

Camping does NOT show (by and large) the fruits of the Spirit.

Then why did you not run away at the sight of him before 1994?

According to you, Camping is the devil, but YOU believed him until his prediction proved false. Now, you say Camping is a liar, etc, etc.

Was he a liar before 1994? No, that's why you sat in his congregation for years and years. He only became a liar AFTER 1994 failed. I see.

Amazing how bitterness clouds judgment and perspective.

Harold was a liar after 1994.

And he will be proven a liar again after 2011 passes.

We already proved that 2011 is false before it happens, by the way.

I proved to Harold that 1994 was false, in 1993.

Jim