Depart Out • Harold Camping • End of the world • church age • Family Radio • View topic

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

The Apostle Paul clearly taught predestination and election.

Ephesians 1
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

Predestination and election is God's business, we do not know who is Elect, we can not see the Lamb's Book of Life to see if our name is written in it.

As human beings we can not control election or predestination.

So what should we do to be saved?

How do we witness to others?

The Apostle Paul gives us the example.

The Hyper-Calvinists who are waiting and hoping to be elect, and who do NOT believe in the Lord Jesus for Salvation are NOT saved.

Romans 10
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Acts 16
29 Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.

Hyper-Calvinists who do not know if they are saved, and are trying to convince others that they also are not saved, are not in accordance with the Bible and the example set forth by the Apostles.

No where in the Bible do we see people quietly waiting and hoping to be elect.

We are told to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour.

Harold Camping, false prophet and cult leader, taught Hyper-Calvinism along with his other heresies, and some former followers of Harold Camping still are deceived by this Hyper-Calvinism heresy, which is unbiblical.

Hyper-Calvinists condemn people if they don;t believe in election.
For them believing in election is a required work for salvation, but believing in Jesus is something we should not do, because they claim this is arminian to believe in Jesus for salvation.

Depart out of all of Harold Camping's heresies including Hyper-Calvinism, and a judgemental condemning attititude toward all Christians.

Jim B.
jimbbbbb@gmail.com

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

Hyper-Calvinists who do NOT believe in Jesus as Saviour are NOT saved and are NOT elect or predestined.

John 3
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 2843

"He that believeth and is BAPTIZED shall be SAVED; but he that believeth not shall be DAMNED." Mark 16:16

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire" Matthew 3:11

I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost" Mark 1:8

To "believe" on His name - John 1:12, means to be "born of God" that is NOT OF THE WILL OF MAN - John 1:13

True belief is to be baptized by the Holy Ghost which must happen to be saved.....one cannot "will" the Holy Ghost to wash a person. It comes by the action of God!

Sorry!

Joined: 20 Oct 2011 Posts: 959

Yes you are "sorry", Tom. A "sorry" example of how a carnal mind, puffed up in supposed knowledge, can butcher the scriptures to justify his own resentments and bitterness.

Why don't you read Romans 1? You might learn that all of mankind begins with the knowledge of God, and that total depravity is the result of continued sinful choices, not a condition from birth. And that they exchanged the truth for a lie, resisting God even while they knew Him.

Kind of blows your Gnostic pagan myth electate Calvinism out of the water. Which is why you continue to ignore the myriad of scriptures that display how God interacts with man, including the coming of the Messiah, His life and ministry, death and resurrection, and Paul's appointment to administer the Gospel to the Church.

Tom, have you been predestined by God to administer "election" to the Church? No? Then stop comparing yourself and everyone else to Paul. Paul was unique, as unique as John the Baptist, in God's plan of Salvation through the cross of Christ to all men, Jew and Gentile.

Kindly keep in mind that you have literally zero impact on anyone theologically with your internet rants. You live out a fantasy of your own making, not realizing how horribly you embarrass yourself daily.

If I go to hell or not, is not dependent on your rants and fake theologies. It is dependent on God, His word, His grace, and Salvation through Christ according to the Apostles teaching. Zero to do with you. I do not place my trust in the twisting superstitions of Tom Golda, who cannot understand the plain words of scripture. You are an insignificant man with zero impact on God's plan. Get over yourself.

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

These are the words of the Apostle Paul written in the inspired Word of God.

Romans 10
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Hyper-Calvinism taught by Harold Camping and Tom Golda (LAMBSFURY) is a false gospel.

Hyper Calvinism means that you can never know if you are saved, and you never know how to be saved, you just hope you are elect.

Since we can not see the Lamb's Book of Life, we can never know if we are elect, and never know if we are saved.

The Bible says we can have assurance of Salvation, and be filled with the Holy Spirit, and experience God's Love.

Hyper Calvinism is a non-gospel of fear, and the militant people who follow this false gospel condemn others, while admitting they are unsaved.

Hyper Calvinists have a works gospel, the work you have to do to be saved, is believe in election and predestination.

Hyper Calvinists trust in their knowledge of the Bible and Calvinism to have a chance to be elect.

They do not trust in Christ alone, but they trust in doctrines.

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 2843

Feeble Jim quoted

Romans 10
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

I highlighted the parts you were terrifed to quote

Those who believe "in the heart" are those whom God has "opened the heart" as He did with Lydia as God gives "a new heart' - Ezekiel 36:26

God must open the heart FIRST and write the Word in the heart before anyone can believe....to "believe" is not looking to the action of man, but the action of God

Sorry!

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

I said that I believe in Election and Predestination.

So God needs to draw people and then they believe.

Tom,
Do you believe in Jesus as your Saviour, and are you filled with the Holy Spirit?

If you can not answer Yes, that means you are not saved, and you are not elect.

The Phillipian Jailer was an elect person, and was obedient to the command to believe in Jesus as his Saviour.

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 2843

Feeble Jim said

"I said that I believe in Election and Predestination. So God needs to draw people and then they believe. "

You are a closet hypercalvinist

As ELECTION is the FOUNDATION of salvation

And to "believe" means born of God as they become a new creature....and a sinless soul

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. " I John 3:9

You cannot of your freewill ever accomplish that...

Sorry!

Joined: 20 Oct 2011 Posts: 959

LAMBSFURY wrote

As ELECTION is the FOUNDATION of salvation

The Bible does not say that "election is the foundation of salvation".

That is a bold faced lie of a cult.

“By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.” 1 Corinthians 3:10-11

1 John 5:11-12 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has this eternal life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have this eternal life.

John 1:12 But to all who have received him--those who believe in his name--he has given the right to become God's children

John 3:16-18 For this is the way God loved the world: he gave his one and only Son that everyone who believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 The one who believes in Him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

I could keep on posting scriptures, for there are many, many more than these.

Tommy Boy, the bully Lambsfury, can only twist verses like wringing out a wet wash clothe. He is a brainwashed cult minded egomaniacal big mouth, and nothing else. His enemies are those with faith in Christ, and he attacks salvation and faith and accuses believers every chance he gets.

Tommy Boy thinks that if he obsesses on God's sovereignty, to the exclusion of His love and other attributes, that God "may" pick him in the end. His behavior reflects his instability.

Anyone who believes in election and predestination should read Romans 1 and understand that God's call is universal, is resistible, and that God interacts with man as in a relationship. Also that man is not created totally depraved, but becomes so by the hardening of sin.

CHRIST IS THE FOUNDATION OF SALVATION.

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

LAMBSFURY wrote

Feeble Jim said

"I said that I believe in Election and Predestination. So God needs to draw people and then they believe. "

You are a closet hypercalvinist

As ELECTION is the FOUNDATION of salvation

And to "believe" means born of God as they become a new creature....and a sinless soul

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. " I John 3:9

You cannot of your freewill ever accomplish that...

Sorry!

Tom,

So what should someone do to be saved?

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 2843

There is nothing you "can do" to be saved, because that is a works gospel. It is not what "you" have to do, it is what "God" has to do IF He decides...

"This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more" Hebrews 10:16-17

In order for anybody's sins to be "remembered no more" GOD must do the work of "putting His laws in one's heart."

You can't put His laws in your heart.....God does the work

You talk about "obedience" to believe...that obedience must be PERFECT

"And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless" Luke 1:6

In order to be righteous before God, you must walk in ALL the commandments BLAMELESS.

Just as I John 3:9 says

So, you can't 'do" this as you keep saying beause anything "you do" is imperfect.....your imperfect obedience and imperfect faith does not save

Only Christ's can, by applying the Holy Spirit to one's life...IF He decides, and He will only decide that IF they are elect.

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

So we should do nothing, and hope we are elect?

How will we know if we are elect?

Someone asked the Apostle Paul this question of what they should do to be saved......

Acts 16
29 Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.......

Tom,

According to you, the Apostle Paul was wrong for telling the Phillipian Jailer to believe to be saved, he should of told him to hope he is elect.....

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 2843

You said

"According to you, the Apostle Paul was wrong for telling the Phillipian Jailer to believe to be saved, he should of told him to hope he is elect....."

Just as Jesus said to seek God, to love God and to believe on Him, just as Paul said

And not one human being can obey that command

If the Philipian jailer was able to accomplish "sinless belief" then he would be saved....

Because sinful, imperfect belief does not save

Since sinless belief cannot be achieved by any human being that means God must take the action

You don't actually believe that your imperfect faith can save you, do you?

Or are you saying that your faith is perfect?

And since you cannot separate grace of God from "election" every time the grace of God is mentioned, election is in view

To your dismay

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

How should we witness to someone about the gospel?

Joined: 26 Jun 2010 Posts: 1250

LAMBSFURY wrote

You said

"According to you, the Apostle Paul was wrong for telling the Phillipian Jailer to believe to be saved, he should of told him to hope he is elect....."

Just as Jesus said to seek God, to love God and to believe on Him, just as Paul said

And not one human being can obey that command

Jim, Tom is mistaken when he says that the response to the jailer's question in Acts 16, was a command of the law. The context is a question about what he (the jailer) must do to be saved, not what he must do to fulfill the law. Obviously, their answer to that question was not a command of the law because not only would that answer not make any sense, but the jailer believed and apparently became saved as a result of their preaching the gospel. Their response was "believe...", not hope and wait. God works salvation in the context of a gospel call to come unto Christ who is the giver of eternal life. God draws the sinner unto Christ for that eternal life. To take the water of life freely (without price), is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. When God draws us and we take the action to believe in Christ, God gives us faith that is saving. This faith that is saving, comes with Christ's righteousness that is given with that God given faith that is saving. So, while on the surface, a true conversion may appear to be Arminian...in reality, it's God who does the drawing, and God who gives the faith to believe in Christ in a saving way, even though God does so in the context of the gospel being preached and man taking action to believe the gospel of Christ...to believe in Christ, who is the focus of gospel preaching and the object of faith. The Bible does say to believe, which is an action that God empowers by His Spirit, so it can truly be said that a man believes unto righteousness. Saving faith is in the heart, that is true. And when we are drawn to exercise faith, we will also exercise the saving faith that is given to us by God as a gift, as a result of that drawing process. We then believe in Christ in a saving way. Saving faith is given with regeneration (Christ's imputed righteousness), even though we exercise that saving faith when God gives it, otherwise, how could we ever believe if we never take the action to believe in Christ when God is drawing us to do so? This is how Acts 16 can make sense...how man believes unto righteousness and not the other way around. Idea