Depart Out • Harold Camping • End of the world • church age • Family Radio • View topic - Revelation 2:13

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 2843

"I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied MY FAITH, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth" Revelation 2:13

Notice in Revelation 2:13, Jesus says that they had not denied HIS FAITH, not "your" faith.

In fact, the majority of the translations say "my faith." A few liberal translations say "your faith"

MY faith = the faith OF Jesus Christ

What steps will the arminian apostates do to make this "go away?"

Lets hear how this is not correctly translated, as if the Greek experts who translated the KJV and the many other translations all had it wrong and your worthless opinion is supposed to matter....

Joined: 10 Oct 2010 Posts: 1198 Location: Canada

LAMBSFURY wrote

What steps will the arminian apostates do to make this "go away?"

Oh No! Are we going to go threw, I mean through all these arguments again?
Face it, some old Jews wrote some essays thousands of years ago and their writings were copied and translated thousands of times so now we're going to argue over weather, I mean whether they wrote "of" or "to"!!

I'll tell you what. Let's wait 25 years. I'll be dead, you'll be dead. Then we can meat, I mean meet and we can discuss who's write, I mean right. There's no way we can no, I mean know the truth before that! Sad

Sigh.......

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 2819

Ken's job when he was teaching was to run the spelling b... I mean Bee.

Joined: 01 Dec 2010 Posts: 711

didymus wrote

Ken's job when he was teaching was to run the spelling b... I mean Bee.

More likely he held the top teaching post in Barbra Streisand (otherwise known as BS).

Joined: 20 Oct 2011 Posts: 959

Lambsfury is a meathead with a parrot brain that has no idea what he's talking about. Tonks is another amateur theologian with an opinion. Ken makes more sense than anyone here.

My faith = faith of Christ = idiot stupid morons trying to make carnal sense out of spiritual truths.

Joined: 01 Dec 2010 Posts: 711

What's left to do when you lack a coherent argument?...resort to the ad hominem of course....never fails.

Joined: 26 Jun 2010 Posts: 1251

I've come to learn that belief in Christ and salvation can't be separated. Those who teach that one can not believe in Christ when the gospel is heard, but be saved anyway, are wrong, IMO. God works through the preaching of the the gospel message about Christ and the Cross, to draw His elect to come to Christ in belief and repentance. Just as repentance is something that a person does, so is belief in Christ, in relation to salvation. Both are brought about by the Spirit, but are still things that we do. We believe and we repent as God enables us to do so as the gospel is heard. Here is a commentary that i found to be particularly interesting:

Barnes' Notes on the Bible

For by grace are ye saved - By mere favor. It is not by your Own merit; it is not because you have any claim. This is a favorite doctrine with Paul, as it is with all who love the Lord Jesus in sincerity; compare the notes at Romans 1:7; Romans 3:24, note.

Through faith - Grace bestowed through faith, or in connection with believing; see the notes at Romans 1:17; Romans 4:16, note.

And that not of yourselves - That is, salvation does not proceed from yourselves. The word rendered "that" - Ï„Î¿Ï…Í‚Ï„Î¿ touto - is in the neuter gender, and the word "faith" - Ï€Î¹ÌÏƒÏ„Î¹Ï‚ pistis - is in the feminine. The word "that," therefore, does not refer particularly to faith, as being the gift of God, but to "the salvation by grace" of which he had been speaking. This is the interpretation of the passage which is the most obvious, and which is now generally conceded to be the true one; see Bloomfield. Many critics, however, as Doddridge, Beza, Piscator, and Chrysostom, maintain that the word "that" (Ï„Î¿Ï…Í‚Ï„Î¿ touto) refers to "faith" (Ï€Î¹ÌÏƒÏ„Î¹Ï‚ pistis); and Doddridge maintains that such a use is common in the New Testament. As a matter of grammar this opinion is certainly doubtful, if not untenable; but as a matter of theology it is a question of very little importance.

Whether this passage proves it or not, it is certainly true that faith is the gift of God. It exists in the mind only when the Holy Spirit produces it there, and is, in common with every other Christian excellence, to be traced to his agency on the heart. This opinion, however, does not militate at all with the doctrine that man himself "believes." It is not God that "believes" for him, for that is impossible. It is his own mind that actually believes, or that exercises faith; see the notes at Romans 4:3. In the same manner "repentance" is to be traced to God. It is one of the fruits of the operation of the Holy Spirit on the soul. But the Holy Spirit does not "repent" for us. It is our "own mind" that repents; our own heart that feels; our own eyes that weep - and without this there can he no true repentance. No one can repent for another; and God neither can nor ought to repent; for us. He has done no wrong, and if repentance is ever exercised, therefore, it must be exercised by our own minds. So of faith. God cannot believe for us. "We" must believe, or "we" shall be damned. Still this does not conflict at all with the opinion, that if we exercise faith, the inclination to do it is to be traced to the agency of God on the heart. I would not contend, therefore, about the grammatical construction of this passage, with respect to the point of the theology contained in it; still it accords better with the obvious grammatical construction, and with the design of the passage to understand the word "that" as referring not to "faith" only, but to "salvation by grace." So Calvin understands it, and so it is understood by Storr, Locke, Clarke, Koppe, Grotius, and others.

It is the gift of God - Salvation by grace is his gift. It is not of merit; it is wholly by favor.

Joined: 26 Jun 2010 Posts: 1251

Here is an excellent sermon on this subject:

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=6110394811