Depart Out • Harold Camping • End of the world • church age • Family Radio • View topic

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

Did I mention that I believed in predestination and election, oh yeah, I think I did.........

Romans 9
31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law

Faith is a gift from God, and not our own, but faith is not works. This verse contrasts works and faith.

Again faith is not of ourselves, it is a gift from God. Faith is not works.

Ephesians 2
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Galatians 2:16 (NKJV)
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

I know, I know, I know Tommy boy IT IS THE FAITH **OF*** CHRIST that saves us!!!!!! We all heard Harold try to get around these verses many times....

Ever think that Christ is God, and God does not need faith in Himself???????? So the faith OF Christ does not make sense, sorry!!!

Faith is a gift given to us by GOd, it is not our own faith.

By the way, did I ever mention that I do believe in predestination and election,,,,, ummmm, yeah I think I might have .....

So now Tom, you can nit pick at what I just said and look for something to disagree with, like a Pharisee described below.....

Matthew 23
24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

You are taking election to the extreme, and you do not even know if you are saved, in other words straining out a gnat, worrying about doctrinal details, and swallowing a camel, missing the whole point of the Bible, which is to be saved, and have a personal peaceful relationship with God through His Son.

This verse also applies to Hyper-calvinists who do not know if they are saved, but know everyone else is NOT saved!!!!

Matthew 23
3 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

Tom,

You believe in Hyper-Calvinism, study about it on the internet.

Joined: 20 Oct 2011 Posts: 953

Quote

Lambsfury accuses:

How that tortures you!!

How you are foaming at the mouth!

Oooooooh, I am so tortured in my sl*t arminian soul! Ooooooh, I'm foaming at the mouth like a vampire every time you say the word election! Oooooh you scare me so much with your razor sharp wisdom, I can't stop shaking! Oooooooh the great wise prophet Lambsfury has destroyed my imaginary relationship with God and sent me straight to hell where I belong! Oooooooh fear the wrath of the prophet Lambsfury, shredding the arminian idol f***ers with the sword of truth!

Nah, just kiddin. Sorry, you bloated ego bag. Hate to tell you, sorry to disappoint you, I am not offended by election. I have believed the word of God on election since I was a kid. This is how I know that the Bible NEVER mentions a "gospel of election", and that your understanding is that of a mental retard. Actually, a mental retard would be given a greater measure of faith by God than your stiff necked hardened heart, which hates the true gospel of CHRIST and the work of the cross. Go ahead, ignore the plain words of the New Covenant, ignore the rent veil. Continue on your path to destroy the assurance of salvation in weaker brethren. One day you will find out that being a "constant accuser" is not a characteristic of Christ, and is a big fat obvious clue for the discerning as to the nature of your spirits.

There is something that is worse than a complete total lie,
and that is partial incomplete truth. A s-atanic deception that hides behind a mask of partial truth, wreaking it's hopelessness and despair. Learned that little trick from Camping, did you? I don't fall for it.

Joined: 20 Oct 2011 Posts: 953

JimB wrote

Did I mention that I believed in predestination and election, oh yeah, I think I did.........

Romans 9
31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law

Faith is a gift from God, and not our own, but faith is not works. This verse contrasts works and faith.

Again faith is not of ourselves, it is a gift from God. Faith is not works.

Ephesians 2
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Galatians 2:16 (NKJV)
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

I know, I know, I know Tommy boy IT IS THE FAITH **OF*** CHRIST that saves us!!!!!! We all heard Harold try to get around these verses many times....

Ever think that Christ is God, and God does not need faith in Himself???????? So the faith OF Christ does not make sense, sorry!!!

Faith is a gift given to us by GOd, it is not our own faith.

By the way, did I ever mention that I do believe in predestination and election,,,,, ummmm, yeah I think I might have .....

So now Tom, you can nit pick at what I just said and look for something to disagree with, like a Pharisee described below.....

Matthew 23
24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

You are taking election to the extreme, and you do not even know if you are saved, in other words straining out a gnat, worrying about doctrinal details, and swallowing a camel, missing the whole point of the Bible, which is to be saved, and have a personal peaceful relationship with God through His Son.

This verse also applies to Hyper-calvinists who do not know if they are saved, but know everyone else is NOT saved!!!!

Matthew 23
3 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

Tom,

You believe in Hyper-Calvinism, study about it on the internet.

Yay, Jim! Spot on, IMHO.

Joined: 28 Jun 2008 Posts: 1335

LAMBSFURY wrote

You said

"Camping blasphemously erred that faith was a work. It is not....."

Yes it is..

"Remembering without ceasing YOUR WORK OF FAITH, and labour of love..." I Thess 1:3

Faith is a work...

"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might WORK the works of God?Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye BELIEVE on him whom he hath sent." John 6:28-29

To believe is a work...

Very poor hermeneutics Lambi. I hope you are made for better things. This is nothing more than pure unaldulterated classical campingism which you are promoting. You have the ability to be reasonable if you apply yourself and would simply listen to what others are saying. Many have been through this with you numerous times on this forum. Will you ever turn from this filthy old school campingism which continues to haunt your very soul? Now listen to me and see if I am not properly interpreting the text.

If you were to pay more careful attention to what the Bible is actually saying here rather than to Harold Camping you would note the verses say 'the work of faith. It does not say faith is work or work is faith anywhere but the work of faith. You are subtily changing the Word; a perilous habit which you have learned from Harold Camping. You should know better than that as the crafty deceiver who is Satan loves to make these very subtle changes in the Word to promote false doctrine.

'Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Paul is writing concerning our 'work of faith'; In other words the holy work which is produced by true faith, the work of faith! Remember that our faith in Christ is dead and no true faith if it is not accompanied by good works - faith without works is dead. This is what Paul is referring to. So Paul continues by speaking of this work produced by faith and labour of love - again it does not read labour is love but labour of love- that is the well-doing labour produced by love. He proceeds with the patience of hope- that is the patience which is derived from hope.

Quote

"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might WORK the works of God?Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye BELIEVE on him whom he hath sent." John 6:28-29

To believe is a work...

You highlight work and believe? Is this proper exegesis? Are you mad? Once again, our Lord is not saying that our faith is a work on our part, but that the Faith which is found in us is due to the working or operation of God. 'This is the work of God, that we believe on Him'. It is God (the Holy Spirit) who works Faith in us; lest we boast that it has orginated in us. Once again hyper-calvinists demonstrate a lack of understanding in even the elementary principles of the scriptures.

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 2836

The reason why arminian calvinists are very worried that "their faith" may be a work is because they know that one is not justified by the works of the law. So, the last thing they want to hear is that their faith is a work. Thus, their "immediate decision" does not save them.

"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." I John 3:23

Lets hear your argument that out of all the commands in the Bible, the hundreds upon hundreds of commands, that the "command" to "believe" is the "lone exception" of it being a work. That to "obey" this "command" is not a work?

Both faith and repentance are "gifts." Because they are given by God.

And that is why those people who keep saying their faith can save them, what goes along with that to the letter, is that they deny God's mercy is what saves as they claim it was some "Old Testament" doctrine.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH ,Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

Faith along with "meekness, along with "gentleness" along with "joy" are listed among the "fruits of the Spirit." A "result" of the Holy Spirit. Your faith no more saves you than your gentleness and joy does. That is why they are listed among these other "works" that are the fruits of the Spirit.

SO you can "not proper exegisis" all you want......your faith is a work and does not save

God's mercy does...

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

LAMBSFURY wrote

The reason why arminian calvinists are very worried that "their faith" may be a work is because they know that one is not justified by the works of the law. So, the last thing they want to hear is that their faith is a work. Thus, their "immediate decision" does not save them.

"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." I John 3:23

Lets hear your argument that out of all the commands in the Bible, the hundreds upon hundreds of commands, that the "command" to "believe" is the "lone exception" of it being a work. That to "obey" this "command" is not a work?

Both faith and repentance are "gifts." Because they are given by God.

And that is why those people who keep saying their faith can save them, what goes along with that to the letter, is that they deny God's mercy is what saves as they claim it was some "Old Testament" doctrine.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH ,Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

Faith along with "meekness, along with "gentleness" along with "joy" are listed among the "fruits of the Spirit." A "result" of the Holy Spirit. Your faith no more saves you than your gentleness and joy does. That is why they are listed among these other "works" that are the fruits of the Spirit.

SO you can "not proper exegisis" all you want......your faith is a work and does not save
God's mercy does...

Tom,

You did not read and understand what anyone just wrote.

We said that faith is a gift from God and not our own, so why did you say "YOUR FAITH DOES NOT SAVE". Again you put words in our mouth. No one here said that we can muster up our own saving faith, did you not read what we said.

We said that faith is a gift from God.

AFTER GOD GIVES US FAITH, THEN WE HAVE FAITH IN JESUS FOR SALVATION.

FAITH IS NOT WORKS.

Romans 9
31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law

Ephesians 2
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Galatians 2:16 (NKJV)
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

All of these verses are saying that faith is not works.

God gives us the gift of faith as we read in Eph 2:8-10, and we are not saved by our own faith.

Can you address these verses Tom, directly without a diversion.

By the way did I ever mention that I DO believe in predestination and election as we read in Romans chapter 9, Oh yeah, I think I did say this at one time...............

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 2836

And as you quote Ephesians talking about faith not being a work. Ephesians also says:

"In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith OF HIM" Ephesians 3:12

One is saved by grace through HIS faith!

That is not a work.

"For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith OF God without effect?" Romans 3:3

You can't say this refers to YOUR faith as the verse talks about UNBELIEF!!!!! The faith OF God saves UNBELIEVERS!

That is why translators of the KJV understood translating certain verses had to be translated in "subjective genetive"(Faith OF Christ) instead of "objective genitive"(Faith IN Christ)

You certainly cannot translate Romans 3:3 as objective genitive.

As well as many other verses, because then it makes your actions as a form of justification.

That is why FAITH is listed as a FRUIT in Galatians! FRUIT does not save! No more than joy does!

And while you keep saying "answer the question" without diversion, YOU are the biggest diverter on the Internet!!

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

LAMBSFURY wrote

And as you quote Ephesians talking about faith not being a work. Ephesians also says:

"In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith OF HIM" Ephesians 3:12

One is saved by grace through HIS faith!

That is not a work.

So we do not need the gift of faith to be saved?????

But God needs faith in Himself?????

LAMBSFURY wrote

"For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith OF God without effect?" Romans 3:3

You can't say this refers to YOUR faith as the verse talks about UNBELIEF!!!!! The faith OF God saves UNBELIEVERS!

That is why translators of the KJV understood translating certain verses had to be translated in "subjective genetive"(Faith OF Christ) instead of "objective genitive"(Faith IN Christ)

You certainly cannot translate Romans 3:3 as objective genitive.

As well as many other verses, because then it makes your actions as a form of justification.

Romans 3:3 (New American Standard Bible)
What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?

Romans 3:3 (Youngs Literal Translation)
for what, if certain were faithless? shall their faithlessness the faithfulness of God make useless?

These verses are not talking about God having faith in Himself, or the faith "OF" God. God does not need faith in himself.

LAMBSFURY wrote

That is why FAITH is listed as a FRUIT in Galatians! FRUIT does not save! No more than joy does!

And while you keep saying "answer the question" without diversion, YOU are the biggest diverter on the Internet!!

Again Tom.

Our own faith does not save, but when God gives us the gift of faith, then this free gift of faith IN Jesus DOES Save us.

We need faith in God and His Son to be saved, this faith is NOT of ourselves it is a gift of God.

Faith is not works, it is a free gift of God.

Can't you read the following verses????
Or will you create a diversion again???

Ephesians 2
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

God just said here that we are saved through faith, and it is NOT our own faith, it is a gift of God, and FAITH is NOT works.

Can't you read these verses and understand them?

Tom,
Can you give your interpretation of Ephesians 2:8,9, without a diversion?????

By the way, did I ever mention that I do believe in predestination and election as the Apostle Paul describes in Romans 9, oh yeah, I think I might have mentioned that, I don't remember..........

To Repeat

Ephesians 2

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

We need grace and faith to be saved.
This faith is a free gift of God, it is NOT our OWN FAITH.
FAITH IS NOT WORKS.

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 2836

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith OF God without effect?" Romans 3:3

It is not talking about God having faith in himself, it is talking about God DOING THE WORK to save.

You can in no way say this refers to faith "in" God, when the verse talks about unbelief.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH ,Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

Faith is a fruit! So is meekness. Didn't Jesus say the meek will inherit the earth? Being meek is a work, and it does not save. It is the result of God's action, the fruit of the Spirit. The Thief on the Cross just said "remember me" and God saved him! This is where you said things changed a few hours later as far as how God saves??!!!!

Keep your arminian god! The God of the Bible stands true!

Joined: 20 Oct 2011 Posts: 953

Quote

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith OF God without effect?" Romans 3:3

Every other translation renders this "God's faithfulness". This is an example of a horrible gross error in the King James. I have nothing against the King James. But don't worship it. I've told you this before - this scripture means that the results of Israels unbelief (not getting the promises) does not mean that God is proved unfaithful. Don't make a doctrine out of a incorrectly translated partial phrase. That's what cults and idiots do.

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Since when is obedience considered works? Obedience is obedience. Works are when someone tries to earn a wage. If the wage is salvation, who can work enough to earn it as their paycheck from God?
Answer: No one.
As a matter of fact, it's a ridiculous idea, could never happen, impossible, preposturous, and fairly insane.
Yet the pride of man may be deceived by the enemy, yet this blindness is only possible if FIRST a man's view of God is diminished, stripped of majesty, glory and the reality of His greatness. THEN a man might think of himself on par with God, able to earn his own way into heaven.

It is obvious in scripture there are degrees of faith. Even faith the amount of a mustard see can move a mountain. It's safe to say our faith no matter who we are, is pathetically small. Faith is not a work, nor is it a wage for works. It is purely a gift.

One cannot work and work to earn more faith from God. It is purely a gift. One can only ask God to increase one's faith.

Faith is rest in the object of the faith, that being God. God is God, and does not have faith in an object outside of Himself.

Faithful is a word that does NOT mean "full of faith", but dependable, true to One's word.

Works of faith are good works one does for the Kingdom of God precisely because one HAS faith. It is BECAUSE of faith, that one will do good works.
One cannot just sit around working up/mustering up a bunch of faith and then that faith is credited to them as "good works". No, no, no. One's faith is credited to them as righteousness. Under the New Covenant, the work of righteousness has been done by Christ on the cross. Upon belief/faith, one is born again, sin is buried/crucified and the believer is raised in spirit into Christ and clothed with His righteousness. This is the manifestation of God's love. This is not earned, worked for, owed to anyone.

God has plainly told man to choose. Why are not all saved if it is not God's will that any should perish? Why is there wickedness and sin if it is against God's will? This is simply how God has ordained and established His system, and it is overwhelmingly plain throughout scripture.

I believe an honest study of Romans 1 shows that God has made himself known to all mankind without exception. Those that believe are given faith in Christ unto salvation and are elected before time began. This is a fantastic incomprehensible miracle of God. In many ways it is a matter of rejection, and hell is a choice against the revelation and gift of God. Yet God in His mercy pleads, yes pleads!, turn turn to Me. Why will You die! Choose Life! Until the point where they are given over completely, and only God knows when that is.

Many people see that there is a God and think that because they admit there is a God that they have faith. Yet they don't know him, thinking he must surely love everyone, and they are good enough people, and the whole Jesus thing is a myth. Sad. But these are not people who claim they are saved by faith in Christ.

Tom, you misuse your God given intelligence to stubbornly hold to base, incorrect views. I don't believe you have the slightest concept of who God is, or you would not see Him as a feudal lord in the dark ages. You are being an idiot not because you are an idiot, but because you want to be an idiot. You have asked to be a big man, and so you are a big man of nothing, an authority on nothing, since you do not know if you are saved and cannot speak of these things from experience with God.

Amateur exegesis. Amateur language skills. Lording election over others. Diminishing the cross. Ignoring scriptures. Refusing to be taught. Misunderstanding the meanings of words primarily because you worship King James irrationally. You don't even understand the meaning and usage of the word "of". You embarrass yourself.

And ALL OF THIS for one agenda, to constantly accuse the brethren that they are not saved, to constantly berate Christians for their FAITH.
THAT IS NOT YOUR JOB. Sifting is God's job. Accusing is $atans job. You can't see this? Come on, man! You're doing the work of $atan, on the side of the enemy, having been deceived into thinking your setting everyone straight! Open your eyes! TOM, lay this all down at the cross and experience salvation, experience assurance and peace from striving, and experience a walk with a God that immeasurable beyond immeasurable. Stop trying to measure Him!!

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

LAMBSFURY wrote

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith OF God without effect?" Romans 3:3

It is not talking about God having faith in himself, it is talking about God DOING THE WORK to save.

You can in no way say this refers to faith "in" God, when the verse talks about unbelief.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH ,Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

Faith is a fruit! So is meekness. Didn't Jesus say the meek will inherit the earth? Being meek is a work, and it does not save. It is the result of God's action, the fruit of the Spirit. The Thief on the Cross just said "remember me" and God saved him! This is where you said things changed a few hours later as far as how God saves??!!!!

Keep your arminian god! The God of the Bible stands true!

Romans 3:3 (New American Standard Bible)
What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?

Romans 3:3 (Youngs Literal Translation)
for what, if certain were faithless? shall their faithlessness the faithfulness of God make useless?

Ephesians 2
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

I believe with these 3 verses say, do you?

You keep saying that we said that we are saved by OUR OWN FAITH IN CHRIST, no one ever said that, we said that faith is a free gift from God, not our own, and we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus.

God gives us this faith, it is not our own.

Faith is NOT WORKS.

Even though we keep repeating this, you have been programmed by Harold Camping to disagree with "church people", and you lump all church people as arminian whores.

I am not an Arminian.
I am not a Calvinist.
I am not a Camping-ite
I am not a Churchite

I am a Christian.

Keep your hyper-Calvinistic, Harold Camping god, the God of the Bible stands true!!!!!

By the way, did I ever mention that I believe in predestination and election, as we read in Romans 9, I am not sure If I ever mentioned that........

Ephesians 2
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

GRACE AND FAITH IS A FREE GIFT FROM GOD, IT IS NOT OUR OWN
WE NEED GRACE AND FAITH IN JESUS TO BE SAVED
FAITH IS NOT WORKS

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 2836

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH ,Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

Faith IS a work because it is something we DO

That is why it is a command - I John 3:23

THUS, the faith in Ephesians where once is saved by grace through FAITH is NOT talking about our faith, it is subjective genitive.....talking about the faith of God

That is why JESUS is the author and finisher of faith - Hebrews 12:2

Sorry!

Joined: 20 Oct 2011 Posts: 953

LAMBSFURY wrote

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH ,Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

Faith is a fruit! So is meekness. Didn't Jesus say the meek will inherit the earth? Being meek is a work, and it does not save. It is the result of God's action, the fruit of the Spirit. The Thief on the Cross just said "remember me" and God saved him! This is where you said things changed a few hours later as far as how God saves??!!!!

Keep your arminian god! The God of the Bible stands true!

This is faith: Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Now faith is the assurance that what we hope for will come about and the certainty that what we cannot see exists.

Now faith is the conviction concerning those things that are in hope, as if it were these things in action, and the revelation of those things that are unseen.

Being meek is not a work, and inheritance is not payment for work. Inheritance is positional. It might be considered a "reward", but that means nothing. Inheritance is receiving something that was not earned - someone else earned it, and it is passed on to the one who holds the position in the will.

Fruit is not work. Fruit is the result of the work. Big difference.
Money is not work. Money is the result of work. Having money in my pocket is not work. Work is what took place before,, the money is the fruit or reward.
The fruit of the Spirit is the RESULT of the work of the Holy Spirit in us to conform us to the image of Christ. And this, in it's essence, is the will of God for our lives.

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 2836

Greg said:

"The fruit of the Spirit is the RESULT of the work of the Holy Spirit"

Yes!!!

And since FAITH is listed as a FRUIT, and by your own arminian admission that it is A RESULT of the Holy Spirit, you just defeated your own arminian god!!

Since faith aka fruit is RESULT, that means GOD DECIDES which people receive THAT RESULT!

It has nothing to do with a "choice" because as you said it is a result of the Holy Spirit!!

Thus, what SAVES is the Holy Spirit, and the RESULT of that is faith! Meaning, faith is NOT the reason one is saved, but the result!

You have betrayed your own arminian god!

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

LUKE CHAPTER 7

47 For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little.” 48 Then He said to her, “Your sins have been forgiven.” 49 Those who were reclining at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this man who even forgives sins?” 50 And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Sounds like Jesus was an arminian.

Notice that Jesus forgived her sins, so she became saved by Jesus first, and then SHE WAS GIVING THE GIFT OF FAITH IN JESUS, and this free gift of faith is the thing that saved her.

This is what Jesus said, "YOUR FAITH HAS SAVED YOU".

Jesus is an arminian.