Depart Out • Harold Camping • End of the world • church age • Family Radio • View topic - Establishing BC Dates Relative to AD Dates

Joined: 06 Jan 2009 Posts: 421 Location: Nevada

The Bible is clear that Jesus was "about 30" when he began his ministry. We know he ministered for 3 and 1/2 years, or 1260 to 1290 days, then there were 5 days from the Garden of Gethsemany to Saturday in the tomb, then there were 40 days to the assention, that matches the 1335 days given in the Book of Daniel which we know is the total time of Jesus' ministry. We know he went to the cross in the month of Abyb (meaning "bloom") in 33 AD. So Jesus was most likely not born prior to 2 BC.

We have good Biblical reason to believe that Jesus would have been born about the time of the Jubilee year. It turns out that Jesus was carried in a Sabath year and born into a Jubilee year. Jesus is the Sabath and Jesus is the Jubilee.

The Bible is aware of a 28 year cycle of calendar schedules which are of a Julian calendar pattern. So we take note that Jacob was born in fact (as clearly indicated by the Bible) 560 years before the exodus and thus would have been in the same calendar schedule. Jacob is Israel. In the Exodus Israel as a nation is born. 1948 fulfills prophesy of the fig tree comming into leaf which is Israel being born. So ISRAEL is BORN all three times in the SAME CALENDAR SCHEDULE of a Julian type system.

Thus our modern calendar is actually accurate. The Jubilee year must have been 1 BC, thus 2000 AD is also a Jubilee year if projected into the future from then. Jacob then was born in 2001 BC, Israel in the Exodus in 1441 BC, and Modern Israel in 1948. So when the Bible says Jesus was "about thirty" he was 29 and some months almost 30.

These things could not be a coincidence. The alternate view is a mess, then our calendar would not be correct, and we would have little or no reasonable theory of how to coordinate BC with AD.

If it is true that Israel was born three times in the same calendar schedule, then the time line is established at least as far back as to the birth of Jacob or the birth of Abraham or Terah. This understanding is supported by the Biblical statements and our modern calendar.

So we know how to link BC to AD.

Dave

Joined: 10 Feb 2008 Posts: 2060

Hi Dave,
Are you expecting the Lord's return Oct 21?

Joined: 06 Jan 2009 Posts: 421 Location: Nevada

Am I expecting the Lord to return any time in the month of October? No, I am not.

It seems clear from the Bible that (regardless of the year) Judgement day and the rapture must occur sometime about the feast of Tablernacles which was for 8 days starting on the 15th of the 7th month of the old calendar. That would be about our November.

I do not claim to have any proof of what year the end is. But it is clear to me that there is a time in a year such that November is the time of the apocalyps and the rapture and the end and Judgment day and the new heaven and new earth and so on. The period will last for 23 days, as suggested by patterns in the Bible, and also the fact that the 8th day of the 7th month of the feast of Tabernacles is on the 22nd day of the month, so I suspect the 23rd day is Judgement Day. What year I can not say.

Dave

Joined: 06 Jan 2009 Posts: 421 Location: Nevada

Many scholars including Camping have not calculated the timing of the 7th month accurately, they are one month too early.

(short on time today, I will have to discuss this at another time).

Dave

Joined: 06 Jan 2009 Posts: 421 Location: Nevada

The primary assumption that I have used above is that the Lord has somehow in the Bible left clues that would allow us to link AD to BC time frames.

Similary the primary assumption that H.C. has used is that the Bible somehow has clues that lead to revealing a Biblical time table of the world.

So it is a matter of discovering what the Bible is trying to teach us about history with respect to chronology.

Others, such and such critics, either would have to argue that the Bible does not have sufficient information to give us an exact calendar of time, or that such as myself and H.C. have gotten our assumptions wrong and have misunderstood the calendar of time. But the most primary assumption is that such Biblical information exists. So then one would most likely have to argue that the Bible is incomplete in chronological clues; but that seems counter to all of the evidence.

So the position of our critics is largely suspect in my view.

Dave

Joined: 22 May 2011 Posts: 146 Location: Texas

david89793 wrote

The Bible is clear that Jesus was "about 30" when he began his ministry. We know he ministered for 3 and 1/2 years, or 1260 to 1290 days, then there were 5 days from the Garden of Gethsemany to Saturday in the tomb, then there were 40 days to the assention, that matches the 1335 days given in the Book of Daniel which we know is the total time of Jesus' ministry. We know he went to the cross in the month of Abyb (meaning "bloom") in 33 AD. So Jesus was most likely not born prior to 2 BC.
...
Thus our modern calendar is actually accurate. The Jubilee year must have been 1 BC, thus 2000 AD is also a Jubilee year if projected into the future from then. Jacob then was born in 2001 BC, Israel in the Exodus in 1441 BC, and Modern Israel in 1948. So when the Bible says Jesus was "about thirty" he was 29 and some months almost 30.

These things could not be a coincidence. The alternate view is a mess, then our calendar would not be correct, and we would have little or no reasonable theory of how to coordinate BC with AD.

If it is true that Israel was born three times in the same calendar schedule, then the time line is established at least as far back as to the birth of Jacob or the birth of Abraham or Terah. This understanding is supported by the Biblical statements and our modern calendar.

So we know how to link BC to AD.

Dave

Yes, the Bible does tell you how to link BC to AD. I just balanced it all the way back to Adam from Paul's use of Anno Domini accounting in the Greek of Ephesians 1:3-14. This balancing is demonstrated in a long document which goes through all the meter and shows it's a rhetorical style dating back to Moses in Psalm 90, in http://www.brainout.net/Ephesians1REPARSED.doc . When you load that (very long and complex) document, pick the link on the Title Page which says 'Balancing-All-Time Summary'. Allow me 2 hours to upload this latest revision, because I'm still editing it for grammar.

You can prove this on the internet as well, but the current version known by the Jews is somewhat garbled. They know Bible allocated 2000 -- really 2100 -- for the Gentiles, then 2000 -- really 2100 -- for the Jews, at which point Christ was to return. Internet terms for these two times are 'Age of Desolation' and 'Age of Torah', respectively. So the Jews posited a third 2000 as the 'Age of Messiah'. They are wrong about the amount of time, but it was a tradition since Rambam (Maimonides) to add it.

Paul thus uses the real 2100 twice, to balance, with the Millennium due under the pre-Church Schedule, at 98 years after Christ was born (beginning of year, for Christ was born at the end of the Roman Year, which was Chanukah in Jewish calendar). So his meter is keyed to show that Christ's success on the Cross Begets a new 490 +70 time grant (rule since Adam, pre-Israel), same as he said in Galatians 4:4. Paul's point is to plot future Church apostasy starting with the horrible 'Church fathers', thus although the Rapture can occur at any time, you can't predict it, and it wasn't likely to happen soon. But just as now, people were drooling for the end of the world, despite this warning. Use of prophetic meter was a frequent thing in Greco-Roman literature and even in plays; it is even more fundamental, in Bible writing. So it was easily discerned.

So Rapture was expected in 91AD; and when it didn't happen, John wrote Revelation that year. So John's Greek meter in Revelation 1:1, is 58 syllables, which +33 = 91. Convention of dating from a King, just as Paul used in Ephesians 1:3, but Paul based it from birth. John bases it from death. Then in Revelation 1:2, next 26 syllables is Roman convention, 26 years after Florus, the last procurator before Temple Down. Total equals 84 syllables, same as Psalm 90:4 uses to date the reserved Millennium. That 84, is 84 years after Judaea became a province, another Roman dating convention.

Long answer to your short question about whether Bible ties BC to AD. Yes, it does. Years from THE KING, the way everyone plotted dates in those days, would demand Bible say the date. And so, it always does. But scholars denigrate Bible, so denigrate its meter, so don't know all this. But even a brainout can prove it. So can you.

Joined: 06 Jan 2009 Posts: 421 Location: Nevada

Actually the rapture and or the end was anticipated about 1,000 AD and then also about 1260 AD from the 1260 days discussed in Revelation and Daniel, and also 1335 AD from the 1335 days mentioned in Daniel. These disapointments during the Middle Ages is most likely the origin of the "celebration" of "April Fool's Day" when the rapture was expted to happen but has not happened.

Now "we" know from the Bible that the last day is during the time of the end of the feast of Tabernacles.

Dave

Joined: 08 Mar 2011 Posts: 368

David/Brainout,

How does any of this further the spreading of the gospel? What benefit is there? It appears that in all of the math, meter, dates and predictions the gospel is all but forgotten. There is no clear biblical directive, therefore no warrant for this use of scripture. The purpose of the Bible was/is to teach that each and every man is a sinner headed for hell. God himself, in the person of Christ, came to take that punishment for all who would become saved. There is no hidden code, calculations, nor secret knowledge needed. The Bible tells of the incredible sacrifice made by God on behalf of the saved. It's the story of the Christ. It's the only knowledge mankind needs.

Joined: 22 May 2011 Posts: 146 Location: Texas

Chris wrote

David/Brainout,

How does any of this further the spreading of the gospel? What benefit is there? It appears that in all of the math, meter, dates and predictions the gospel is all but forgotten. There is no clear biblical directive, therefore no warrant for this use of scripture. The purpose of the Bible was/is to teach that each and every man is a sinner headed for hell. God himself, in the person of Christ, came to take that punishment for all who would become saved. There is no hidden code, calculations, nor secret knowledge needed. The Bible tells of the incredible sacrifice made by God on behalf of the saved. It's the story of the Christ. It's the only knowledge mankind needs.

Bible's validity and proper interpretation demands, among other things, that you know WHAT TIME IT IS. When a letter is written, why it's written and to whom, tells you much about how to interpret it. Unfortunately, the Church Fathers were very poor scholars, wrongly lauded as 'great', so all this information IN the Bible, has been overlooked. It didn't help that they were virulently anti-semitic, so what they could have learned from the Jews (who also have garbled notions, but no one is 100% wrong) -- they rejected. So the RAPTURE doctrine, which is in the BIBLE based on pre-Israel rules about How God Orchestrates Time -- hence the begats in Genesis 5 -- this Rapture doctrine is disputed. No excuse for that. But the Church fathers rejected anything which was pro-Israel.

You know, it's about growing up spiritually after salvation, and the Rapture doctrine WARNS you to do that, else you'll die a spiritual retard, just as all the church fathers did. And, all who praise them. You can't be anti-semitic and grow up spiritually, never mind Israel wrongly rejects Messiah. We Church reject Him as well, by denying the eschatology. So saved, but retards. Forever.

Joined: 22 May 2011 Posts: 146 Location: Texas

The Ephesian1REPARSED.doc doesn't yet reflect what's written here. If you downloaded it, you'll see in the 'Balancing-All-Time Summary' section that Paul meters the text to balances in four-six ways to show he's writing in Year 4158 from Adam's Fall. But there are two or three more ways he does this, using the eudokian anaphora ALONE.

Background: Each Bible writer adopts a dateline meter formula to convey doctrinal meaning appropriate to the topic on which he writes. Moses dated his meter using a formula based on years from the Flood and Jacob's entry into the Land; Isaiah dated his, picking up where Moses left off, plus using a metrical theme of First David to Last David. Daniel 9, picked up in the middle of Isaiah, targeting the Temple Down moment of Isaiah 53:4's meter.

So Paul formulates his datelines to 'tag' all of them.

Here for the 231, which is metered exactly the same as Daniel 9:24-27, considering that's about Messiah, Paul uses the 231 like Isaiah's theme. That's especially important since his prophetic here's-how-Church-will-deny-Christ meter, keeps tagging Isaiah consecutively, from Isaiah 53:3 through 10 (when the then-future Constantine, dies).

So Paul's formula is date of writing balanced to the past, +new time grant. Each of the three anaphora is then pegged to a related date in the past, so you know what year he writes. Then, he either adds 490 or 560, to represent the new time grant (under the same 490+70 rules since Adam).

So: meter of the eudokian anaphora =231, *7=1617-560 new time grant = Year 1057 (beginning of year) from DAVID. Because the Last David aka the Lord Jesus Christ had to be born in the 1000th anniversary. And He was. So when Paul first divides the meter by seven at 56 (which is end of year, beginning of year 57), he balances also to the year of David's Kingship.

Next, 1617 -16 balances to the year the Lord SHOULD have died, had He not been rejected; = what SHOULD have been the year Paul was writing (same year, but different years-from) -- to stress REJECTION, hence presage how Church will reject Christ also, by turning religious, just as Israel had.

Finally, with ONLY the 57 subtracted, balances to the year David became king of all Israel. That's a no-brainer.

So the three-year error we all know about, is here demonstrated. Paul appears to be using the Roman AUC convention, but designating year 753 as 1AD. I'm still working on that. Conventional secular scholarship begins the dating the same way, which accounts for why Paul's meter tracks so perfectly to our BC/AD dates. That flummoxed me for months. Now I know why it works.

Upshot: Camping couldn't be more wrong. Bible convention is to date years-from, and one of those conventions, is years from Adam. So no Spirit in Camping, though he once believed Christ died for his sins, so he's saved, never mind everything else he says is so screwed up. Saved, but carnal.

This Bible dating convention is done by meter, since everyone memorized the syllables, and enjoyed working out the formula to learn more doctrine, better. It's also done so anyone at any time in history, can know WHAT TIME IT WAS.

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 2819

...Since when did they start providing internet access at the asylum?

Joined: 22 May 2011 Posts: 146 Location: Texas

Well, since you obviously live there, ask your interns. Anyone sane can GOOGLE and get the terms from any number of Jewish websites, to see it's in mainstream Judaism. Further, you can order a calendar showing the same accounting style from Aish.com, which also sports a live webcam at the Wailing Wall in the Kotel.

POINT: idiots like you don't even bother to do any homework. I've been researching this for 10 years, and posted this as a courtesy to the few who are not dingbats, since I owe a debt of gratitude to departout, especially to Pilgrim and JimB -- without this forum, I'd never have discovered what KIND of error Camping made -- which error, God used to unlock my conundra about Paul's Greek meter at '91' -- which is based ON the Flood 'year'.

FOR EVERYONE ELSE: God accounts Time in Bible as BIRTHDAYS; birthday of birth, of death (birthed to God forever), of kingship, of a foundation, of Exodus, etc. Can't do that accounting except as solar, or you miss the anniversary. So the 'birthday' of Adam (clever use of min preposition in Genesis 3:22) is when he FELL, and time is measured from then 'the all your days' judgment. So years from Adam is the convention of the 'traditional' Jewish calendar, but they messed up both the years and the days, because they ignore Exodus 12's SOLAR YEAR injunction. Lots of Jews know about this.

I've documented that thoroughly in the forum. Learn it or not, it's worth a fortune. What I got for free, I must return for free.

PS: note to JimB, if you read this: I finally got hold of two old original 1994? and 'Are You Ready?' books. Wow, poor guy can't add or subtract. If he used the Jewish calendar for the days, why didn't he notice what YEARS they were using (which are off, they debit 343-346 years' time under the Persian Kings, which you can also GOOGLE on to find out why they do that).

Joined: 22 May 2011 Posts: 146 Location: Texas

david89793 wrote

Actually the rapture and or the end was anticipated about 1,000 AD and then also about 1260 AD from the 1260 days discussed in Revelation and Daniel, and also 1335 AD from the 1335 days mentioned in Daniel. These disapointments during the Middle Ages is most likely the origin of the "celebration" of "April Fool's Day" when the rapture was expted to happen but has not happened.

Now "we" know from the Bible that the last day is during the time of the end of the feast of Tabernacles.

Dave

No, the 1290 and 1335 days are literal days you count once IN the Tribulation, from the END of it. Revelation shows an EXIT window in the middle of the tribulation when the Revelation 9 DEMONS (not true believers, lol) are released. http://www.brainout.net/TribChrono.pdf (or xls, if you prefer) shows the details.

I don't know why people ignore what Bible says. It says SEVEN YEARS for the Tribulation in Daniel 9:27. Not 23: 23 isn't even a Biblical number. 23 is a demon number, used in the occult. Camping made it up (and badly, his 'proof' proves him wrong, lol), to make his old failed predictions, look good.

SEVEN is a Biblical number. Basis of all Hebrew meter in Bible. Same period as predicted ever since Moses in Psalm 90's meter. So when you count backwards from seven SOLAR YEARS (which Daniel uses, as does everyone else in the Bible), you get the exit window in the middle, just after the Rev 9 demons finish their five months torturing of unbelievers. Between that, and the earthquake when the 2 Witnesses in Rev 11, have their 'ascension'.

Joined: 10 Feb 2008 Posts: 2060

I've never really understood why they went with 23 years when 7 years appears all over; both old and new testaments.

Joined: 22 May 2011 Posts: 146 Location: Texas

jbrown wrote

I've never really understood why they went with 23 years when 7 years appears all over; both old and new testaments.

True -- Paul balances to a seven-year Tribulation, in his meter of Ephesians 1:3-14, I'm just now uploading the latest tally of it, in http://www.brainout.net/Ephesians1REPARSED.doc . Thanks to Camping's error, my quest of 10 years is finally balanced and finished. Paul shows how INDIVIDUAL BELIEVERS are used to BUY TIME for the human race, in that passage. My pastor taught that for decades, too. But I couldn't see the proof of it in Scripture, until 2001. Been getting more and more proof, every year since.

JimB can explain the convoluted logic of Camping better than I can. I just acquired the two books of his mentioned, yesterday. But in Camping's rapture-proof.pdf, he went through some of his gymnastics, which I covered here in the forum: 'Camping Timeline Gaffes' is the thread name. I forget where I put it. Frankly, Camping just invented the number to make his failed predictions look valid. Pity he didn't bother to actually search Scripture on the number 23, like I did. Smile

You'll see the Bible verses with that number, if you find the thread and then search on '23'. I think it's in the second post of that thread?

Seven-year Tribulation is time owed Christ, and that's how it was represented (by Passover Week) in the Mosaic Law. It doesn't belong to Church. And Revelation 9 demons are not true believers, lol.