Depart Out • Harold Camping • End of the world • church age • Family Radio • View topic - Bible question: Was Saul really talkiing to Samuel???

Joined: 05 May 2011 Posts: 274

Bible question
I was listening to the bible reading fellowship today and this question is bugging me.

When God cut off all communication with Saul, Saul went to a female seer.

Question:
Who was Saul talking too via the seer? the Seer saw the man to be Samuel and so did Saul.

God let it stand without casting any doubts that it was not Samuel.

This person also said to Saul he and his son will be joining him soon - Stating also that God basically wanted no part of him and David will be king, etc.

Can anyone toss their theory on it.
I don't think it's Samuel because that would open up a lot of questions.

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 2819

This is a great question. I've thought about it myself and I believe that it was him. Prior to the cross I believe that "Paradise" was part of Hades, the underworld, and that all dead souls occupied that area that is literally and physically within the center of the earth. Unsaved persons after the cross still inhabit that realm.

Joined: 05 May 2011 Posts: 274

My niece said the same thing you did, didymus.

Ok... So now the can of worms are opened.

How can Seer(s) have the power to bring the dead back?
She awaken Samuel.
How can the dead be commanded(child of God) to return to speak at the hands of the unsaved?

God is totally against mediums, etc.

Samuel asked Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"
I caught the words "bringing me UP."

So everyone who died before the cross was in a waiting station.

I guess when Jesus spoke with Moses and Elijah, they were in that waiting place as well.
But, Elijah was taken to heaven and so was Enoch - why wasn't these guys placed in the waiting station?

Joined: 10 Feb 2008 Posts: 2058

The Seer NEVER had the power to bring back anyone from the dead. GOD, for His own purposes, brought Samuel back.

The Seer was/is always powerless over the dead.

Remember, even the Seer was shocked.

Joined: 03 Jul 2010 Posts: 1908

tryin_2_be_faithful wrote

My niece said the same thing you did, didymus.

Ok... So now the can of worms are opened.

How can Seer(s) have the power to bring the dead back?
She awaken Samuel.
How can the dead be commanded(child of God) to return to speak at the hands of the unsaved?

God is totally against mediums, etc.

Samuel asked Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"
I caught the words "bringing me UP."

So everyone who died before the cross was in a waiting station.

I guess when Jesus spoke with Moses and Elijah, they were in that waiting place as well.
But, Elijah was taken to heaven and so was Enoch - why wasn't these guys placed in the waiting station?

So presuming the incident at face value :

As God remains "totally against" Balaam (note Jude 11), yet He used the latter's rebellion for good by turning Balaam's rebellious curse into a blessing, so God apparently used the seer's wickedness/wrath for His own purposes/praise (so Psalm 76:10).

As God allowed the seer to bring Samuel up He surely could bring Elijah and Enoch (and Moses etc) back up - Elijah certainly bodily went up into "heaven" i.e. the sky , Enoch "was not" because the Lord took him , and Moses body also apparently remained not in the grave but in no case do any of these expression presume that any of them went into the third heaven - into the very presence of God or that they did not wait in a Paradise in the center of the earth etc.

Joined: 05 May 2011 Posts: 274

"Remember, even the Seer was shocked."
Yes, after reading it first hand today, I caught several new things.

1)I don't think she was expecting to see anyone because she screamed.
2)skipping over words ........ she said she saw gods ascending out of the earth.
3)Saul asked her what did he look like and she described him and this is key -- the seer said an old man with a mantle.
4)"He (Saul) perceived it was Samuel." that's the key word. So do we know for sure it was Saul?
5)Samuel said to Saul, "you and your son will be joining me soon." Saul was not saved - so joining him where, in death?

Remember, Job.... God from the outset let us know full well He allowed Satan to attacked Job. but if you read it - this scene plays as if the Seer did. if it was by God's hand why didn't Samuel acknowledged it, instead he said, why have "you" --- bring me up.

As for where was he, I don't know. I always thought a child of God went straight into heaven. the word "bring up" makes me think he wasn't in heaven at the time. if he was, then Samuel would have said "why have you called me down."

And God cut off speaking with Saul, why would he work through a Seer? He didn't need her.

I could be over thinking this. LOL

Joined: 10 Feb 2008 Posts: 2058

Tryin-2-b-faithful said; And God cut off speaking with Saul, why would he work through a Seer? He didn't need her.

It is the history of man that we think we know what God will do and how He will do it. God certainly didn't need the seer but for His own reasons He used her.

(Theological point; both the just and the unjust serve God's purposes. He is not limited by the fallibility of his vessels.)

Joined: 03 Jul 2010 Posts: 1908

jbrown wrote

(Theological point; both the just and the unjust serve God's purposes. He is not limited by the fallibility of his vessels.)

Amen even such vessels as HC Inc.

Joined: 10 Feb 2008 Posts: 2058

oneeternalgospel wrote

jbrown wrote

(Theological point; both the just and the unjust serve God's purposes. He is not limited by the fallibility of his vessels.)

Amen even such vessels as HC Inc.

Yes, God is using HC to punish date setters for the umpteenth time I do believe.

Joined: 03 Jul 2010 Posts: 1908

jbrown wrote

oneeternalgospel wrote

jbrown wrote

(Theological point; both the just and the unjust serve God's purposes. He is not limited by the fallibility of his vessels.)

Amen even such vessels as HC Inc.

Yes, God is using HC to punish date setters for the umpteenth time I do believe.

Even as Schofield was used to punish those who refused to recognize the saints have become citizens of the commonwealth of Israel , Ephesians 2:12 into believing and preaching a Christ less pseudo gospel/covenant for ethnic Israel ?

Joined: 05 May 2011 Posts: 274

Okay, thanks guys.

Joined: 05 Aug 2008 Posts: 327

It is a good question, i would lean to saying it was not saul but could be wrong because it would fit into what death is which is a soul sleep, and the spirit (or whatever) did suggest being disturbed

Joined: 05 May 2011 Posts: 274

Search, I am leaning soooo hard like you. A few words caused me pause.

1) The Seer described to Saul what she saw. And then, Saul "perceived" it was Samuel.

2) disturbed
Could mean sleep or trouble me or bother me.

But then again, God said the Seer saw Samuel and she screamed.

So, I guess we have to pray on it. God can do anything.
Or as my brother told me..
"God said to Samuel -- ok, go down and give them a surprise." so the Seer screamed, it was truly shocking to see . LOL

Joined: 19 May 2011 Posts: 12

tryin_2_be_faithful wrote

Search, I am leaning soooo hard like you. A God said the Seer saw Samuel and she screamed.

I read through that just now. There's a few facts about 1 Samuel 28 to consider. It says, "And Saul had put the mediums and the necromancers out of the land," and the medium repeats that because she is fearful about performing the request: "Why then are you laying a trap for my life to bring about my death?” She also does not at first know the man is Saul. Saul had disguised himself because of her fear of him, and she talks as if Saul is another person: "Surely you know what Saul has done." She screams when she sees Samuel, but this is also when she first realizes that the man is Saul: “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul.” There may be reason for her to fear Samuel, but she clearly fears Saul. I don't know why seeing Samuel made her realize the man was Saul though.

This passage also reminds me of Exodus 7, where concerning turning rods into snakes and water into blood, "Pharaoh summoned the wise men and the sorcerers, and they, the magicians of Egypt, also did the same by their secret arts." Were these just clever tricks or was something real in it? Either way, it does say, "But Aaron’s staff swallowed up their staffs," showing inferiority, and the subsequent plagues were not so repeated. Like false prophets, it may be convincing but ultimately doesn't work as advertised. Neither here did Saul receive the type of advice he sought.

We have still other passages like 1 Kings 18 (Elijah taunting the prophets of Baal), where those believing in another supernatural force are utterly powerless. Then there are many references mocking "worthless idols" that are nothing but "wood and stone."

Yes, we also have Job, "Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life,” and Luke 22, "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail." The forces are real but entirely dependent on God's acquiescence.