Depart Out • Harold Camping • End of the world • church age • Family Radio • View topic

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

Consider this example of how crazy the "end of the church age" is.

Say some people in a remote island just receive some new Bibles translated in their language. They never heard of Family Radio or Harold Camping.

They want to become Christians and ask God to save them through Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross.

Can these people be God's elect and become saved without hearing Harold Camping? Of Course.

So far they are OK according to Campingworld.

A few of them read the book of Timothy where it talks about a church and the qualifications of elder and deacons.

They form a church and select a couple of qualified men as elders and deacons.

Now they call themselves a church, so according to Harold Camping they are under the rule of satan and apostate, because all churches are apostate according to Camping.

If the same people get together and have Bible teachings, and fellowship together, and do not label people elders and deacons, but call themselves a "fellowship", then they are safe according to Camping-ites.

These people never heard of May 21, Harold Camping, annihilation, or his other teachings, can they be saved? OF course, Jesus Christ saves us, not agreeing with Harold Camping.

This is how rediculous all cults are, they think you must follow their set of doctrines and rules to be saved.

Only what Jesus did on the Cross can save us, not believing in a date, not leaving our church, or attending a church, or believing in election or predestination, or any other mental doctrine, only what Jesus did on the Cross can save us.

We are commanded to confess our sins and believe in God's Son for salvation, not to beg and plead to hope we are elect.

Jim B.
jimbbbbb@gmail.com

Joined: 10 Oct 2010 Posts: 1195 Location: Canada

Jim, you have forgotten how Camping tells us to test a church for apostacy.

You go to the church and ask the people;
"Are you ready for the return of Christ?"
They will answer, "Oh yes, we are ready"
Then you ask them;
"Do you know when Christ is returning?"
They will say,"Oh no, He's coming as a thief in the night. But we are all safe and secure."
Then you'll know that they are headed for sudden destruction! It's terrible! Terrible!

Joined: 05 Aug 2008 Posts: 327

Quote

Say some people in a remote island just receive some new Bibles translated in their language. They never heard of Family Radio or Harold Camping.

They want to become Christians and ask God to save them through Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross.

Can these people be God's elect and become saved without hearing Harold Camping? Of Course.

So far they are OK according to Campingworld.

A few of them read the book of Timothy where it talks about a church and the qualifications of elder and deacons.

They form a church and select a couple of qualified men as elders and deacons.

Now they call themselves a church, so according to Harold Camping they are under the rule of satan and apostate, because all churches are apostate according to Camping.

Another way you could ask the question; what if they taught the same doctrines as camping but still were considered a church?

Joined: 09 Mar 2011 Posts: 108 Location: Banning, CA

Let's go to Mr. Camping's church in Alameda tomorrow morning and ask.

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

Mr Camping calls his church a "fellowship", therefore he gets around the fact that it is a church in God's eyes. There is pastors, elders there and teaching, and money collection, just like a church, but since they claim all churches are apostate, they call themselves a "fellowship" to get around it.

I also was involved in a cult in the 1980s that followed Harold, we declared all churches apostate, we were just called a "group". We even broke from Harold Camping.

So I know the mindset of the Camping followers.

It is all about being proud about our knowledge, and thinking we are better than others becuase of our BIble knowledge.

Joined: 09 Mar 2011 Posts: 108 Location: Banning, CA

JimB wrote

It is all about being proud about our knowledge, and thinking we are better than others becuase of our BIble knowledge.

Which, for most of the "True Believer" cult members, is severely lacking. Bible knowledge is nothing if it's only whatever Harold has fed them. Few of them appear to read the book itself whatsoever.

"You need to get your hands on the gospel before you comment here...read Harold Camping's book "We Are Almost There" for more information."

Joined: 31 Jul 2010 Posts: 133

All churches believe that you can do something to save yourself, whether it be living a good life or doing a little thing like saying a sinner's prayer or accepting Jesus as your savior.

This is what differentiates Camping's teaching from the churches regardless of how obedient they are because he says the bible teaches you can't do anything.

It's really sad that if this is true how cheated so many "christians" would feel because they expected to be saved, I assume that will be the time when everyone left will have nothing going for them so it is going to be scary.

It almost seems unreal even the way they're describing it will happen (judgment day arriving per time zone) but judgment day has to come for the bible to be true.

Joined: 10 Oct 2010 Posts: 1195 Location: Canada

dim wrote

It's really sad that if this is true how cheated so many "christians" would feel because they expected to be saved, I assume that will be the time when everyone left will have nothing going for them so it is going to be scary.

If Harold comes up to you and asks, "Do you have peace and safety?"
Whatever you do, don't say, "Oh yes, I'm safe and secure. Jesus is coming as a thief in the night but I'm ready!"
'Cause if you say that, then "WHAM, BAM", God will strike you dead! It's terrible, terrible!
How do I know this? Uncle Harold told me so!!
Ken

Joined: 15 Nov 2010 Posts: 200

JimB wrote

Consider this example of how crazy the "end of the church age" is.

Say some people in a remote island just receive some new Bibles translated in their language. They never heard of Family Radio or Harold Camping.

They want to become Christians and ask God to save them through Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross.

Can these people be God's elect and become saved without hearing Harold Camping? Of Course.

So far they are OK according to Campingworld.

A few of them read the book of Timothy where it talks about a church and the qualifications of elder and deacons.

They form a church and select a couple of qualified men as elders and deacons.

Now they call themselves a church, so according to Harold Camping they are under the rule of satan and apostate, because all churches are apostate according to Camping.

If the same people get together and have Bible teachings, and fellowship together, and do not label people elders and deacons, but call themselves a "fellowship", then they are safe according to Camping-ites.

These people never heard of May 21, Harold Camping, annihilation, or his other teachings, can they be saved? OF course, Jesus Christ saves us, not agreeing with Harold Camping.

This is how rediculous all cults are, they think you must follow their set of doctrines and rules to be saved.

Only what Jesus did on the Cross can save us, not believing in a date, not leaving our church, or attending a church, or believing in election or predestination, or any other mental doctrine, only what Jesus did on the Cross can save us.

We are commanded to confess our sins and believe in God's Son for salvation, not to beg and plead to hope we are elect.
Jim B.
jimbbbbb@gmail.com

Is "begging and Pleading" to be saved something new Harold Camping came up with only recently? That's what he tells a lot of the people who are taking part in his "caravan movement," some of whom only recently joined him out of fear of May 21st. Hasn't he already concluded and taught that to beg and plead with God for salvation would be useless?

People have been scared into doing Harold Camping's bidding. I guess he couldn't continue his "I'm an elect and you're not" message without giving some kind of hope to these poor folks, so he had to come up with something to keep them working. Afterall, it makes him look good.

Pleading and begging doesn't seem to fit with his "man can do nothing to be saved" teaching, or his insistance that "God already decided before the world was all (everyone) who would be saved." So, why does he give false hope to those working in his caravans?

If obedience, repentance, baptism, and faith are all "works" that will NEVER SAVE US, certainly "begging and pleading" fit the catagory. Under the surface, what Camping is doing is evil, "a sheep in wolves clothing."

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

Seeking,
exactly true.

Harold falsely teaches the "all churches" teach works gospel, where we can do the work of believing. This is false. I go to a non-denominational independent church that agrees with predestination and election, but does not over stress this. They simply teach that we can not save ourselves, but need to believe in Jesus for salvation.

Hoping, begging, and pleading we are elect are much harder works then simply confessing we are sinners, and believing in Jesus. Hoping never gives us rest and never gives us assurance, so we are kept in bondage and fear.

Harold Camping has a works gospel.

You must believe in May 21, leave your church, and believe in all of his new heresies, such as annihilation, and the demonstration Cross, to have a chance to be elect, and after all of that you still are not sure you are saved.

Harold teaches a false works gospel of fear and intimidation from the devil.

I used to agree with some of his false teaching many years ago, and I had no real peace with God.

There is a 100% chance that the earth reaches Jan 1, 2012.

Jim
jimbbbbb@gmail.com

Joined: 13 May 2010 Posts: 202

JimB wrote

Seeking,
exactly true.

Harold falsely teaches the "all churches" teach works gospel, where we can do the work of believing. This is false. I go to a non-denominational independent church that agrees with predestination and election, but does not over stress this. They simply teach that we can not save ourselves, but need to believe in Jesus for salvation.

Hoping, begging, and pleading we are elect are much harder works then simply confessing we are sinners, and believing in Jesus. Hoping never gives us rest and never gives us assurance, so we are kept in bondage and fear.

Harold Camping has a works gospel.

You must believe in May 21, leave your church, and believe in all of his new heresies, such as annihilation, and the demonstration Cross, to have a chance to be elect, and after all of that you still are not sure you are saved.

Harold teaches a false works gospel of fear and intimidation from the devil.

I used to agree with some of his false teaching many years ago, and I had no real peace with God.

There is a 100% chance that the earth reaches Jan 1, 2012.

Jim
jimbbbbb@gmail.com

Have you broken the Calendar ? Nope.

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 3027

UKPerson wrote

Have you broken the Calendar ? Nope.

Yes myself and others have proven Harold's Calendar wrong for the past 3 years on the website. And since Harold came up with his calendar in the 1970s, many have proven it wrong.

UK,

You have no idea what the BIble says, and you are trusting Harold Camping.

Here is just one proof that it is wrong:

Harold proves his "calendar patriarch" theory, whereby people are born the year someone else died, by saying that Kohath was born the year Levi died years after they entered Egypt. However the Bible says that Kohath is an immediate son of Levi, born before they entered Egypt.

Genesis 46
8 These are the names of the sons of Israel (Jacob and his descendants) who went to Egypt: Reuben the firstborn of Jacob.
9 The sons of Reuben: Hanok, Pallu, Hezron and Karmi.
10 The sons of Simeon: Jemuel, Jamin, Ohad, Jakin, Zohar and Shaul the son of a Canaanite woman.
11 The sons of Levi: Gershon, Kohath and Merari.

You and others claim to follow only the Bible, can you, TB, or ITSINTHEBIBLE, please address these verses?

These verses prove Harold's whole calendar theory wrong, his understanding of Genesis 5 and 11 wrong. His calendar is off by several thousand years.

Joined: 01 Jan 2011 Posts: 48 Location: California

dim wrote

All churches believe that you can do something to save yourself, whether it be living a good life or doing a little thing like saying a sinner's prayer or accepting Jesus as your savior.

What about hardline Calvinist churches?

Joined: 10 Feb 2008 Posts: 2058

Campingworld just ignores that inconvenient little detail.

Campingworld is sure all churches are arminian in outlook and charismatic in behavior with women and gays in all the pulpits.

It makes it easy to then declare all churches apostate.

Joined: 10 Oct 2010 Posts: 1195 Location: Canada

jbrown, you forgot that Camping also says that some churches even have drums!!

As Robin would say, "Holy Bedlam, Batman!"
Ken